You couldn't be here if stars hadn't exploded.
To the question, “Why me?” the cosmos barely bothers to return the reply, “Why not?”
Atheist: Natural Morals, Real Meaning, Credible Truth

11 June, 2009

Trying to explain



JAMSHED MOIDU said...
To all Anonymous followers of Darwin
Why are so much irritated when the SCIENTIFIC INVALIDITY of evolution is questioned?

where is the scientific evidence for evolution? don't say THERE ARE MANY EVIDENCE , show us the evidence instead of Barking there are....there are...there are such and such evidence , prove it scientifically rather than getting irritated
Anonymous said...
talkorigins.org happy reading, this should get you started. Or else, Google.com
Tom said...
Evolution is questioned daily by the science community. The fact is that the theory Darwin proposed 150 years ago has been extensivly questioned, tested, refined, questioned and tested, refined again and again. It proposes a mechanism for the creation of species, it predicts what to find in the fossil and DNA records, and those predictions are verified. That happens daily. The theory Darwin proposed 150 years ago is only the starting point. It has grown in detail far beyond your imagination.

Your alternative is nothing. It predicts or explains nothing. You can only say god did it. Sorry, that just isn't good enough. And we are angry at the stupidity of all religion and the waste of time, resources, and lives that the powerful in religion expend to maintain their power.
JAMSHED MOIDU said...
#Tom said...
WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE FOR EVOLUTION THEORY? IF U DON'T HAVE DON'T POTRAY 'DARWINISM' AS A SCIENTIFIC FACT....
JAMSHED MOIDU said...
#Tom
WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE FOR EVOLUTION THEORY? IF U DON'T HAVE DON'T POTRAY 'DARWINISM' AS A SCIENTIFIC FACT....
You don't have scientific evidence for the theory...if u have SHOW US ...
Tom said...
i agree with you , yes we don't have evidence for evolution theory,we cannot prove its scientific validity,but we keep it alive because it is bread and buuter of athiest you ignorant idiot moron
JAMSHED MOIDU said...
That's right Tom
Tom (the real one, not an imposter) said...
Evidence for evolution: Read Jerry Coyne's "Why Evolution is True". Hundreds of fossiles dated in time sequence showing the migration of whales nostrils from the snout to the top of the head. The fact that all mammals have forearms that consist of a single bone, two bones, then fingers. The fact that 98% of our DNA matches that of other apes. The fact that all vertibrates have eyes, hearts, stomaches, intestines, spines. The fact that all living cells function essentially the same way. The fact that bacteria can develop immunity to anti-bacterial agents. The fact is that there is no alternative explaination for life on this planet that tests as true, what is your explaination? God did it? Prove it. And don't quote some document written when people thought the sun went around the earth and stars were crystals in the night sky.
JAMSHED MOIDU said...
The question is on the scientific PROOFS on the validity of the theory..not whether God created or not ...show us the evidence,if not PROCLAIM THAT THE THEORY IS UNSCIENTIFIC..
Tom said...
Are you deliberatly dense? Or just close minded? The proof of evolution is that it is tested. It passes all tests. Evolution predicts. The predictions are verified. Evolution explains life. No other explainations of life pass tests or make predictions. How else do you prove something that is a process? There is no Evoution Particle to weigh, measure, observe. We can only observe nature and see evolution work. We see it all the time, lizards in the Mediterranean that change their digestive systems in 30 years of isolation and competition, E-coli bacteria in a lab evolving to live in conditions it didn't tolerate before. Genetic coding that follows evolutionary paths. Those are the proofs of evolution. Science theory... I suggest you learn what a science theory really is. It is an idea that attempts to explain. Science tests the theory with experiment and observation. The theory is used to make predictions and those predictions are checked. Evolution has been undergoing this process for 150 years and NOT ONCE has it failed. And it only takes once to disprove it. You just need to find a rabbit fossil with some dinosaurs. That would be the end of evolution. Or some other disconnect. Evolution has been improved over the years with more detail and information. It is far from what Darwin described in his day.

Sorry... Evolution is fact. Get over it. Open your eyes to the real world. It is much lighter out here in the real world where you can see real meaning, real morals, real purpose in life, being your own self instead of being controlled.
JAMSHED MOIDU said...
real world where you can see real meaning, real morals, real purpose in life, being your own self instead of being controlled.

Do animals have morals? do animals have ethical principles in life?what is the real meaning of life for animals?
For all your PROOFs I WILL wrote you soon.....i have got exams....
JAMSHED MOIDU said...
all your proofs are nothing and it doesn;t have scientific importance......most of them are the product of the mechanism called adaptation...and adaptation will never gring about new sprcies....
if some one goes to GYMNASIUM his muscle mass increases due to the stress ....but he never transform to another specie...humans are always human...
Anonymous said...
Well, all the proofs are very meaningful as they have immense scientific validity. Anyone with a lick of common sense would see that such a process of adaptation, over a long enough period of time, would eventually lead to a new species. (And, by the way, your example of someone going to the gym shows your extreme ignorance of the subject - acquired characteristics such as that are not passed on, and would never lead to another species. On the other hand, someone born with a certain mutation may find themselves more capable of reproducing than others, and the process goes on long enough that the new species has little resemblance to the original one.)

And I hate to break it to you, but you're being controlled far more than the "Darwinists" you're rallying against.

So far, your responses read like thus!

"Show me the evidence! You don't have no stinking evidence! What's that you have evidence? Well, all your evidence is nothing compared to my ignorance!"

You sound just like a thousand other robots who will look reality in the face then turn away and proudly proclaim your ignorance.
Anonymous said...
Dude, I count no less than 57 (fifty-seven) pictures of Adnan Oktar on your fp. Are the two of you dating?
Anonymous said...
Tom bring us your single most important proof of evolution? A classic evolutionary observation and experiment which proves beyond doubt evolution occured. Dont confuse people by generalized talk on subjects.
Tom said...
Ok. Here is just one. It took me about 54 seconds to find it.
Since this stupid blog won't allow pasting, I have to type the whole thing in. Since it also won't allow cutting, you'll have to type it out.

Links: https://myxo.css.msu.edu/ecoli/

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn14094-bacteria-make-major-evolutionary-shift-in-the-lab.html

or Google: lenski evolution
to get:
https://www.msu.edu/~lenski/sciencearticle.html
Where it is specifically stated that this result was NOT adaption because genetically the bacterial had changed substantially and was no longer the same.

There is not a "single most important proof of evolution". There is a preponderence of evidence from many branches of geology and biology.

Sure animals have morals. Most kill only to eat or protect their species, they have community, care for young, train young. Meaning is simple, survive and reproduce. But that requires cooperation and teamwork in many ways. The mean and stupid die off. Human morals are based on the same basics. Survive and reproduce. Since we are not strong, fast, or toothy, we have to cooperate, team up, think it out to survive. Our morals are to relieve suffering and give happiness because those who do survive longer, the mean and stupid die off. All the other crap about pleasing god is just made up stuff by those in power to control the mob and keep women in control.

Look around man... evolution explains a lot.
JAMSHED MOIDU said...
Tom
How did cells and tissues acquired feeling of compassion?
why should animals show compassion to the young one, after all they should kill them to survive and you know that only strong survive according to your theory...
Did Jack fruit, apple ,lemon, grapes,bananas, coconut, mango etc...etc where created through mechanism of ADAPTATION/
Did lotus,rose flower, lilly, Dahlia...etc...etc...where all created through the mechanism of ADAPTATION?
Did ORANGE where evolved from LEMON just ECAUSE THEY LOOK SIMILAR?
Mercedez E-class looks similar to Mercedez S-class-- they where made individually NOT EVOLVED FROM one another...
JAMSHED MOIDU said...
please open your EYELIDS AND LOOK around maaan, INTELLIGENT DESIGN is manifested everywhere......and keep your FRONTAL CORTEX stimulated....
JAMSHED MOIDU said...
Tom
you should answer to one of the anonymous question above
Tom bring us your single most important proof of evolution? A classic evolutionary observation and experiment which proves beyond doubt evolution occured. Dont confuse people by generalized talk on subjects.
JAMSHED MOIDU said...
if something looks similar,does that mean they where evolved? You need more intelligent to make something similar than to make dissimilar things!!

The key board you are typing looks similar to most of the other keyboard , but they where not evolved, they where made by conscious people not just formed one day !!!!
Anonymous said...
TOM the example you cite, Is it another flawed interpretation like the one used for nylonase? You must be knowing that nylonase is now known to derive from a two nucleotide substitution and not the bullcrap of 90% change in genetic information which was propagated for years and is still being propagated by some thickheaded evolutionists. This incident could be explained in a similar manner. There is no complex trait in the evolution of citrate metabolism in the same way there was no complex genetic information built in the adaptation of an extant enzyme to digest nylon. Tom if this is your single MOST IMPORTANT PROOF then we the creationist wont have to endevaour anything in refuting it. Evolution is known for its great deception. Comeon mate it can deceive in better ways.
Anonymous said...
Remember whole apes turned into humans in just 65,000 mutations. This experiment has been going on for 44,000 generations and they just found 1 trait.LOL. The fact that each generation time is much much longer in humans or apes doesnt matter at all. Natural selection is supposed to work much much better in species with smaller generation times to allow quicker adaptation of favorable traits. The fact that a sperm might be accumulating all the wrong mutations in the world is very very probable in a reproductive lifetime of an ape, however that the sperm might be accumulating all the magic traits in perfect order in a single generation without natural selection is foolishness. So Tom what do you have to say? Why dont bacteria evolve after thousands and thousands of generations(44,000) and apes turned into humans in 65,000 generations or so.
Anonymous said...
Correction: 65,000 generations
Anonymous said...
The answer is because apes never did turn into humans. Humans must have emerged independently of apes and the lab experiment you are citing is proof of that.
Anonymous said...
I would believe in evolution if someone could explain me why is that human beings have such a superior brain compared to all the creatures? Why don't any other creatures don't have the ability to think like humans? Why didn't any other creatures evolve like humans? A coincidence?
JAMSHED MOIDU said...
Thanks lot for the anonymous support...

I think Tom will never answer to the questions...
MikeTheInfidel said...
You people are fucking idiots.
JAMSHED MOIDU said...
#Mike
Give evidence .........
JAMSHED MOIDU said...
and prove your INTELLIGENT TRAIT!!
Tom said...
You all continue to be dense.

A flower doesn't compete with it's own kind. That is morality at a basic level.

The keyboard comment... we are talking biology, not mechanical engineering!

The nylon thing... click my name for a wiki article. They have done it with other bacteria.

You all display a fundemental lack of understanding about evolution and natural selection. Here is a start:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnzmxeZJeho

You all cling to your fairy tale that a desiger designed you. You need that belief to feel like there is a reward after this life. Grow up and get over it. You have more important things to do.

I DO look around and I am in AWE of the physics, chemistry, and biology I see around me. I see NO evidence of ANY god. Nothing suggests there is a god around. If he does exist, he is a major fuck up. No wonder he is hiding, I'd be embarrassed by this mess he made as well.
Anonymous said...
WE dont display a lack of understanding of evolution. Evolution displays an ignorance about sciences and the fossil record. Evolution will go on but for how long, the fossils were suppressed until todate, most of the public never saw or came to learn about the huge collection of fossils which we have. Now its clear. It is damn clear. No changes have taken place in species, experiments are failing to cause emergence of complex traits. Bacterial resistance has been explained with pharmacological sciences without the need of evolution.Everything is fitting in with the creationist model of life and rejectin a common descent.
Anonymous said...
The ability of mutations to make millions of complex species is like blind and insane men with no touch sensation trying to build petronas tower, opera house, TaJ Mahal by arranging random building materials. No matter how many full vision supervisors you keep on the site to capitalize small building developments(natural selection), they will wait for trillions and trillions of and no building will emerge.
Anonymous said...
And for the record that youtube video of DonExodus just babbles about Evolution being scientific without proving it. Comparisons are made to gravity and its mechanisms of working which we have all heard out before without any rational, convincing explanation. Convince us how design can emerge. Convince us how a cyctochrome C can emerge or a mitochondria generating ATP can emerge or how the 100,000,000,000 nervous cells can organize and align in perfection to give us vision, hearing, sensation of pain, touch, to give us organized cognition and memory. Comeon provide a rational materialist explanation instead of telling us blind accidents planned all that. Unifying theory?? Evolution doesnt unify anything. All sciences from embryology, paleontology work well and in conformity independent of a hypothesis on origin of species. Evolution doesnt add anything in terms of unification of biological sciences. Embryology, paleontolgy, biochemistry and molecular biology are unified fields of study by the very nature of studying species in the common global setting we reside in.
Anonymous said...
Tom, are you retarded or what? Just look around and see for yourself. I am an athiest, I don't believe in God as there is no proof for his existence, likewise I don't believe in evolution too, its not science but pure shit wothout any solid evidence but instead have lots of contradictions. The time has come for another alternate theory to come or wait until GOD shows up!
Tom said...
"blind and insane men" = evidence you still fail to understand evolution AND natural selection. (Click my name) The implications of selection part of evolution are extremely important and not to be glossed over. You will find, if you look, that the implications of natural selection are very deep and can be very subtle, or quite obvious.

Evolution doesn't create design! There is NO design. Evolution selects for optimal survival and reproduction, that is it. There is no intent in evolution. The organism is not "trying" to be anything different. That is why some organisms don't change for millions of years, if there is no stress (competition for food or mates), then change doesn't get selected over the old organism. Sharks do well as they are because there is plenty of food and no real competition in the sea.

"align in perfection"??? there is nothing perfect in any biology... you have a nerve that goes from your brain, around your heart and aorta and back up to your larynx, that is perfection? Why would it do that. Because as you evolved, that nerve had to stay connected, it couldn't suddenly jump across your aorta and go directly to yuor larynx. Then there are your eyes with backward retinas or the fact that our veins clog up with cholesterol as you age. Organs we don't need, genes that are garbage and turned off. Look, I cannot in this small space describe how our nervous system evolved into what we have today... there is a very good book that pulls it all together with current information: "Why Evolution is True" by Jerry Coyne. He is an actual scientist, unlike Mr Yahya.

Biology is very messy because of evolution. Each step has to build on what was there previously. There are no jumps, if it wasn't there before, it can't exist now. Each change is small and if it is sucessful, is passed on.

So your alternative is some creator designed animals and placed them here. When? Why aren't there any horse fossils in the dinosaur ages? Why aren't there dinosaurs now? How come bats, humans, dogs, whales all have the same basic parts? Head, neck, two arms (forelegs), two legs (back legs), eyes, internal organs, cellular chemistry, genetic code? Wouldn't a designer design better for perfection instead of using the same parts over and over again? You say they are all unrelated but they have the same parts. Couldn't cheeta legs be optimized for running better? Have you ever watched magic tricks? Why are our minds so easily tricked? Why do bats have solid bones instead of lighter hollow ones like birds? This creator guy seems kind of sloppy. There is absolutely nothing perfect in his creations. Definately not in humans.

Of course evolution unifies the biologies! It explains how we find fossils where we do, why embryos are the way they are, why biochemistry does what it does, why the genetic codes vary as they do and are so similar among all animals.

What fossils were suppressed? Fossils that prove WHAT? A horse with a dinosaur? A 3 Million year old human? What? Ridiculous.

Look. I can't help you if you don't even try to understand, but then you don't want my help and will continue to live in the dark ages, your loss. Science and medicine will leave you behind. The discoveries based on or aided by evolution happen daily. You are welcome to wallow in your creationist beliefs, but you will be left behind, you won't understand why, you'll resent it and claim conspiracy. Oh! You seem to be there now! Very sad waste of obvious talent.
Tom said...
I wish people would not be afraid and sign their names....
No, I am not retarded. There is plenty of evidence for evolution as I have stated over and over again. Why is it not science???? The theory explains what we see. We test the theory. It passes (like finding the right fossils in the right places). We use the theory to predict outcome. It happens as predicted (like stressing a bacteria to change what it eats). HOW IS THAT NOT SCIENCE!?!?!?
JAMSHED MOIDU said...
#Tom
A flower doesn't compete with it's own kind. That is morality at a basic level.

According to the Evolution theory it is the basic priciple to compete to survive and to form a new species of living things.....THEN IF NOT FLOWER DID'T COMPETE HOW WAS IT FORMED ACCORDING TO EVOLUTIONARY MECHANISM?

Then what about those fruits? what evolutionary MECHANISM lead to the Formation of JACK FRUIT, BANANA, ORANGE,APPLE,LEMON,STRAWBERRY,GRAPES,WATER MELON, MANGO.......etc....etc....?
Don't say TOMATO EVOLVED TO APPLE or like LEMON EVOLVED TO ORANGE just because they have similarities.....


#The keyboard comment... we are talking biology, not mechanical engineering!

Evolutionist always compare HUMAN BODY to machines, do you know that ? Human bodies functions are divided according to various systems like NERVOUS SYSTEM DIGESTIVE SYSTEM, RESPIRATORY SYSTEM, REPRODUCTIVE SYSTE, etc...etc...all these system works in a MECHANISED fashion, they cordinate each other,if anything happens to one of the system the entire FUNCTIONING is affected.....the biological function act in a MECHANISED way....please read GUYTON'S physiology Medical textbook and UPDATE YOUR knowledge...
IF KEY BOARDS CANNOT ORGANISE THEMSELVES THEN HOW CAN INANIMATE THINGS CAN GIVE RISE TO THE ANIMATE OBJECTS BY THEMSELVES?(The FIRST cell-according to evolutionary mechanism was formed out of COINCIDENCE)

#You all cling to your fairy tale that a desiger designed you. You need that belief to feel like there is a reward after this life. Grow up and get over it. You have more important things to do.

Its you clinging to your IMAGINARY STORIES that life came out of chance, and if you are suffering INSOMNIA..i prescribe you to read the stories of ''ORIGIN OF SPECIES'', you will get enough sleep...

For your kind information...
MEDICAL SCIENCE IS GETTING UPDATED EVERY DAY....EVERY YEAR MEDICAL BOOKS ARE GETTING UPDATED DUE TO THE ACCUMULATION OF KNOWLEDGE....SO I REQUEST YOU TO UPDATE YOUR KNOWLEDGE and please don't LIVE WITH YOU 18TH CENTUARY KNOWLEDGE.....keep updating
If you need to Know anything about NEW BOOKS in Medicine i would be pleased to inform you...
JAMSHED MOIDU said...
#Tom
During embryogenesis: The embryo makes EYES AND EARS...how did embryo came to know that there is OBJECTS outside the womb to SEE and sounds OUSTSIDE to hear?
Was it out of COINCIDENCE?
YOU SEE KEY AND LOCK CANNOT BE THE PRODUCT OF CHANCE!!!!!
Anonymous said...
Evolution doesn't create design! There is NO design. Evolution selects for optimal survival and reproduction, that is it. There is no intent in evolution. The organism is not "trying" to be anything different. That is why some organisms don't change for millions of years, if there is no stress (competition for food or mates), then change doesn't get selected over the old organism. Sharks do well as they are because there is plenty of food and no real competition in the sea.

Apes fought for survival to become human beings? lol poor logic man
Anonymous said...
Jamshed,
You need to read a lot more about evolution before you argue, your level of knowledge is not even comparable to high school kids. Though evolution is not proved as of yet and it lack evidences your understanding of evolution is very bad. Don't read Harun Yahya's books to learn about evolution, use other standard publications or you can even google 'evidences against evolution'. That will give you more scientific explanation for why evolution is not true. Do proper research before you comment or post and don't attack anyone one personally. Way to go bro.

Good luck.

NB: I don't believe in evolution
JAMSHED MOIDU said...
sO YOU ARE TELLING THERE IS NO DESIGN IN YOUR EYES, EARS,FINGERS,TEETH,respiratory system,cardiovascular system, digestive system, locomotor systemm............??????/
JAMSHED MOIDU said...
#Don't read Harun Yahya's books to learn about evolution, use other standard publications or you can even google 'evidences against evolution'

I READ ALL THE BOOKS...ONE THAT IS SUPPORTING ...denying,
But i don;t find any evidence for EVOLUTION THEORY and it is just AN ASSUMPTION without any evidence...

I didn't attack anyone personally without any reason, he just stopped in commenting about evolution,I WAS DOING A RESEARCH ON EVOLUTION,but i find evolutionist to be CLOSED MINDED people....
JAMSHED MOIDU said...
and i did;t attacK anyone...i JUST REQUESTED HIM.....SEE MY POST its written as ''A request to PZ'' not An attack to PZ''...
Anonymous said...
Harun Yahya's book are excellent resources of Evolution.
JAMSHED MOIDU said...
#Harun Yahya's book are excellent resources of Evolution.

Yes...i have been reading since 9 years...

one more thing PZ Myers has blocked me permanetly in commenting his blog..

#Tom
he will never give a proper explanation to the questions.....he is trying to escape by giving UNSCIENTIFIC EXPLANATION....
Anonymous said...
I wrote a long reply to Tom. Unfortunately it didnt get posted and I wast too lazy to type it all out again. So maybe tomorrow. Good points raised Jamshed. The analogy = evolution argument is so lame. And whenever they bring that up just tell them that 5,000 most important genes are 75% similar in humans and nematodes. And that potatoes have 46 chromosomes or that two fishes represent the greatest genomic differences of all vertebrates. According to evolution logic, the elephant is more related to a bat then a bony fish is related to a bony fish.
JAMSHED MOIDU said...
you could have copied those comments and pasted,so you don't loose even if it is not pasted,

#46 chromosomes...yes i have read this one in Harun yahya's Miracle of DNA--result of human genome project

please take care of #TOM...i will be busy with my exams for few days.....
Anonymous said...
Molecular phylogenetics chokes every now and then when more and more examples are found of sequence similarities in distant species more stronger then in close species. It should be a undisputed law if evolution were true that distant species have lesser sequence similarities in ALL their proteins as compared to closely related organisms since proteins are inherited from the most recent common ancestor. Logically the more ancient the common ancestor the more disparate the inherited proteins should be. It would be utterly embarrassing if proteins are found more similar in distant organisms then closely related organisms.
More and more examples of such proteins are being found. Although the ape and human are very similar such differences demolish to rubble any proposal that species are related based on molecular systematics.
Why would a protein be closer in pigs and humans.

Did one of our ape-man father's commit adultery and screwed one from the line of evolving pigs, the product piggy of which inherited that gene.
Tom said...
"During embryogenesis: The embryo makes EYES AND EARS...how did embryo came to know that there is OBJECTS outside the womb to SEE and sounds OUSTSIDE to hear?"
You have a long way to go. Genes dude... genes.

"Apes fought for survival to become human beings? lol poor logic man"
Apes fought for survival AND BECAME human beings. There was no intent. Again, ignorance of evolutionary theory and how it works.

".....he is trying to escape by giving UNSCIENTIFIC EXPLANATION...."
Explain to me please what a SCIENTIFIC EXPLANATION would look like. I have cited what science has found through the tests performed on evolution. What more do you want? For me to somehow publish through this tiny comment box a textbook on evolution? I've given you several examples of excellent books on the subject by experts. I am not an expert and I run circles around you guys in my understanding of evolution.

"Did one of our ape-man father's commit adultery and screwed one from the line of evolving pigs, the product piggy of which inherited that gene."
Sorry... beyond my level of knowledge to comment on. I searched and found no controversy on the subject.

"sO YOU ARE TELLING THERE IS NO DESIGN IN YOUR EYES, EARS,FINGERS,TEETH,respiratory system,cardiovascular system, digestive system, locomotor systemm............??????/"
Yes.
In evolution there IS NO INTENT to design. You get what you get. There is nothing out there thinking "we need eyes and ears on this animal so lets start making them." Again. Natural selection chooses the best, it took billions of years and trillions of generations and a billion trillions of individuals, but it got there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution
Anonymous said...
Unanswerable controversies are not regarded as controversies in Darwinists minds. The thin scientific curtain they hide behind is exposed. Go read how many examples like I cited dont fill in with the phylogenetic trees and they just keep these examples under the mat.
Tom said...
Unanswerable controversies! It is either an issue or not. Phylogenetic problems either exist or don't exist. I couldn't find any. Ok, so you provide some evidence of a controversy. A scientifically published paper would be nice.
Anonymous I said...
Well, when any one holds a view against the consensus held by the scientific monopoloy. He is deemed a heretic of science even if that consensus is not based on evidence. The evolutionist biologic 'scientific' community is adopting the same views held by the catholic church when galileo stood up to challenge the widely held view. The counter-evolution movement today is small but growing, based on evidence and has clearly broke the pseudoscientific pillars of Darwinism. Therefore I admit openly, thats it's a rarity to see openly a paper challenging the fundamentals of evolution. However for example indirectly the paper on nylonase showed the scientific basis of how an esterase had already a cleft which was near-conformed to diggest nylon. In the same way there are many quotes from notable people that the the molecular basis of life doesnt neatly fit into the phylogenetic trees we speculate event though this should happen if the tree structure of life was unquestionable.
Anonymous I said...
These are direct quotations from Harun Yahya's website but references can be provided from notable scientific publications:

Comparisons carried out on the molecule cytochrome c, cited by the NAS as evidence for evolution, resulted in disappointment for evolutionists. These comparisons showed that the turtle was closer to birds than to the snake, another reptile. Evolutionists had claimed that the protein sequences of the turtle and snake, two reptiles, should be much closer to each another. The same research also revealed that chickens exhibit greater similarities to penguins than to ducks. Man emerges as closer to kangaroos than to apes.
Anonymous I said...
Molecular evolution is about to be accepted as a method superior to paleontology for the discovery of evolutionary relationships. As a molecular evolutionist I should be elated. Instead it seems disconcerting that many exceptions exist to the orderly progression of species as determined by molecular homologies; so many in fact that I think the exception, the quirks, may carry the more important message

Christian Schwabe, "On the Validity of Molecular Evolution", Trends in Biochemical Sciences, vol. 11, July 1986.
Anonymous I said...
No consistent organismal phylogeny has emerged from the many individual protein phylogenies so far produced. Phylogenetic incongruities can be seen everywhere in the universal tree, from its root to the major branchings within and among the various [groups] to the makeup of the primary groupings themselves.

Carl Woese, "The Universal Ancestor", Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences USA, 95, 1998, p. 6854
Anonymous I said...
Against this background of high variability between relaxins from purportedly closely related species, the relaxins of pig and whale are all but identical. The molecules derived from rats, guinea-pigs, man and pigs are as distant from each other (approximately 55%) as all are from the elasmobranch's relaxin. ...Insulin, however, brings man and pig phylogenetically closer together than chimpanzee and man.

Christian Schwabe, "Theoretical Limitations of Molecular Phylogenetics and the Evolution of Relaxins", Comparative Biochemical Physiology, vol. 107B,
Creationist said...
Evolution is full of blunders without proofs,
How can infor,ation in the chromosomes form themselves?
the article you have read was not the product of chance,but a product of intelligent mind
Creationist said...
evolution is a fairy tale written by the gratest fairy teller Darwin
Alex said...
Tom
escape..escape...escape...
you cannot give scientific evidence to these people,they have taken master degree on these subject,
so run away.....run away.....hide some where like Richard Dawkins.
Tom said...
I am getting tired of Oktar's picture.

It looks like the phylogenetic trees had have some questions and some detractors. But that is the way of science and the fact these papers got published isn't good evidence of your conspiracy theories. However, one reference is 20 years old, the other 10. A lot has happened lately. Looks like they are pressing on with phylogenetic coding despite your detractors:
http://discovermagazine.com/2005/apr/pushing-phylocode
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PhyloCode
http://www.ohio.edu/phylocode/
http://www.palaeos.org/PhyloCode

I am getting tired of beating my head against a brick wall. I hope one of your readers got a germ of evolution planted and maybe someday they'll come to understand it. That would make this worth it. I never really thought I'd convert anyone, but had to try. Enjoy your lives in the delusional dark ages. I sincerely hope it isn't too painful.
JAMSHED MOIDU said...
#Tom
You have a long way to go. Genes dude... genes.

Which evolutionary Mechanism LOADED information into the Genes?
Was it Natural selection? SELECTION NEEDS an intelligent Mind!!!

#Apes fought for survival AND BECAME human beings. There was no intent. Again, ignorance of evolutionary theory and how it works.

Why only Apes fought to become Human?...why not other creatures?

#Explain to me please what a SCIENTIFIC EXPLANATION would look like.

A scientific explanation with concrete evidence where EXPERIMENTS validate the theory.
Cite an experiment that proves species can evolve into another BRAND NEW specie.......SO THAT I CAN DO THE SAME EXPERIMENT HERE IN INDIA AND CONFIRM ITS VALIDITY.

#sO YOU ARE TELLING THERE IS NO DESIGN IN YOUR EYES, EARS,FINGERS,TEETH,respiratory system,cardiovascular system, digestive system, locomotor systemm............??????/"
Yes.
In evolution there IS NO INTENT to design.

So you are telling there is no DESIGN in your body.....ok
Is there any DESIGN in your Laptop, Airplane,Mobile phone, shirt, your computer screen,pen......etc....etc.....how was it formed? was it formed out of ''BLIND SELECTION'' or by ''INTELLIGENT SELECTION''?
Luhar From The African Coast said...
"I am getting tired of beating my head against a brick wall"

No you are getting punched by the gloves of the Harun Yahya. Whether a paper is 10, 20 or 1000 years old. As long as the content in it can be validated today suffices. It doesnt change the fact that kangaroos have cytochrome C more analogous then apes if the paper documenting this fact is published in circa 2000 BC or 2000 AD.

You dont need to reconfirm that the evolutionists wont stop at anything to move their theory, the point I was making is that they hide the big big holes in the theory and go to sleep thinking that their imaginatory connections will last for long. Harun yahya has awoken the world and we wont stop until we have intellectually circumcised all this evolutionists propagandists.
Anonymous said...
“Which evolutionary Mechanism LOADED information into the Genes?
Was it Natural selection? SELECTION NEEDS an intelligent Mind!!!”
Selection does not need a mind! Read the theory and understand how it works. Selection is a natural process that HAS NO INTENT.

“Why only Apes fought to become Human?...why not other creatures?”
Read my word exactly please. Our ancestral apes fought to SURVIVE. Not to become human. Humans are the result, not the goal. Not the same thing.

“Cite an experiment that proves species can evolve into another BRAND NEW specie...”
I have already cited one. The E Coli that evolved to live in a citric environment. They are effectively a new species. Other E Coli cannot live in that environment, only the new one. Another example is the breeding of dogs over the centuries. A Great Dane cannot mate naturally with a Dachshund. Genetically they are close but they are separated now physically. Species: "a species is a group of actually or potentially interbreeding individuals who are reproductively isolated from other such groups."

“Is there any DESIGN in your Laptop, Airplane,Mobile phone, shirt, your computer screen,pen...”
There you go again equating technology with biology. Evolution has no intent. Biology has no intent. It strives to survive and reproduce but it has no intent. There is no goal, only a result. You are like a child asked why there are clouds answering “to make the grass grow”. The child attributes intent on the clouds where there is none. You have to attribute intent in order to keep your god around were there is none.

“you are getting punched by the gloves of the Harun Yahya.”
Ha! Ha! HA! HA! SNORT! Ha! HA! That is so funny it hurts! That crook! He is a con man who knows he has a great gig leading you guys around thinking he is a “GREAT SCIENTIST” where in reality is just a crook. Like all the other preacher crooks. Good luck with that!

Tom
Anonymous said...
Tom your answers dont make sense. they are just wild throw outs. Is there a paper which has investigated the nature of the Citrate metabolism emergence?? Until and unless a paper fully documents what changes take place this cannot be cited as proof for evolution. Same with the nylonase. 2 nucleotide substitution morphing the esterase cleft already pre-disposed to digesting nylonase is not proof of emergence of a new trait. Why dont they continue the nylonase experiment and show us it evolving into a fully efficacious enzyme rather than the 2% activity we see? Evolutionist hypocrisy has no bounds, they dont shy from making bold statements like the enzyme evolved into a completely new 100% genetically different enzyme relying on papers by Susumu which are in the 80's and are speculations which have been debunked.
Anonymous said...
"Evolution has no intent and no mind"

Is that why every cell in terms of molecular biology is termed excellent engineering. One can only conclude you have a shallow aesthetic awareness when you say a mindless process produced the Rose plant or the 2 million nephron factory which purifies your blood without which you wont last a few days or the liver which works 500 types of complex metabolic pathways. I guess you make a blind, unreflected statement when you say evolution happened with the only requirement on this earth being time and yet expect people to sit and nod their heads at you. Why would someone nod when your explanations wont be even acceptable to children who know the basic complexities of life. Such a foolish, simple concept as accidents causing magical arrangement only if the accidents are supervised by a process is utter stupidity. The outcomes are in the infinite yet we see a universe with a definitive genetic coding. The genetic formulary doesnt work in infinite sequence options. The limited species this world has experienced are just an ultra-microscopic dot in the vast expanse of non-sense genetic coding possible. This dot theory is enough proof that God designed the precision of the genetic sequences we possess. Tom to change just 38 amino acids into another specific order requires 4 billion years of the natural mutation rate.

Tom REflect and think and dont be dogmatic. The majority is not always correct. The evidence is.
Tom said...
Did you not read the link I provided to Lenski's research on E Coli? Here it is again:
https://www.msu.edu/~lenski/sciencearticle.html

Did you not read what I said I found that they had other bacteria eating nylon. I didn't just throw it out... I found the article. I suggest you get away from Yahya.

"One can only conclude you have a shallow aesthetic awareness when you say a mindless process produced the Rose plant..."
Huh? What has that to do with the argument? However... have you ever seen a Mandelbrot or Fractal where a complicated picture is created from a simple algorithm? The algorithm is simple and mindless but creates a colorful and complicated picture with just small variations of input parameters. Executing a math equation over and over is not a designer, it is just a process running. Like evolution, over and over, trillions of times over billions of years.

"simple concept as accidents causing magical arrangement only if the accidents are supervised by a process is utter stupidity"
Where have I said anything magical happens? Sure there are many more possible combinations of genetic code, they just weren't selected. And each code has to come from parents, nothing in evolution suggests a code just pops out, change is by just one mutation at a time. Also, just because a coding is possible doesn't make it viable. Many were selected and then died off. The fossil record shows many species that no longer exist, branches that were dead ends or were ended by disaster. I am sorry you fail to see the simple beauty of evolution. Do you also fail to see the simple beauty of Kepler's laws of planetary motion? Einstein's Special and General Relativity? Newtons general laws of physics? Is there intelligence behind those processes? In many ways, evolution is much simpler.

Logical Fallacy: Argument from Personal Incredulity
"I cannot explain or understand this, therefore it cannot be true. Creationists are fond of arguing that they cannot imagine the complexity of life resulting from blind evolution, but that does not mean life did not evolve."
From: http://www.theskepticsguide.org/resources/logicalfallacies.aspx

I HAVE reflected on this and I am NOT being dogmatic. For an old aerospace engineer, I think I am being pretty open minded. And I am not in the majority, creationism is still the most popular belief in this world about were we come from. The evidence shown to me is evolution is true. It makes sense to me. You don't see it and I am sorry. All I can suggest is you read Coyne's book, it lays it all out nicely, even addressing some of your points. Let go of your god for just a little while you read it. It could be a releasing experience.

I see no god. Just because something is beautiful and complicated and "looks" designed doesn't make god true.
Anonymous said...
Tom you are immersed in evolutionary fraud. Just to open your slight eyes, all propaganda done on the dino-bird theory has been debunked again with further evidence.Go read the article in science daily 9th June after research done on the the flight-femur relationship of birds by the Orgean university scientists. It is another additional scientific hammer on the heads of evolutionists frauds who persist in their false dogma. Youtube has massive fraud documentaries trying to speculate dino-bird and making it appear as a fact. Musesums controlled by evolutionists make it appear as a fact with only small astersisks and small prints saying a few scientisits disagress. I will read your article and get back to you.

Go read the latest paper on nylonase.
J.Mol Biology(2007) 370, 142-156. Authored by Seiji Negoro et al the study and the crystallographic analysis of nylonase. It proves beyond doubt the false lies place by evolutionary propagandists.

What more do you want. Will you cling to your citrate until it is further debunked. Or will you wait for your death and then open your eyes as to the irrational science you lived in.
Anonymous said...
"Executing a math equation over and over is not a designer"

Tom without doubt, You have no understanding of the world you are living in. Are you serious with this statement. A simple mathematical equation proving the origin of all life and biodiversity, the most incredible, sophisticated engineering, in all its most excellent magnificent design. Tom do you smoke ganja, I know you are my elder but I have to ask you this since ganja can worsen the outcome of those trapped in the overwhelming deceit of darwinism and who have been swayed by evolutionary winds of misinformation.
Anonymous said...
All the laws you mentioned can NEVER be equated with the objective task they represent. Remember Evolution is suppose to represent the True fact of the ORIGIN OF ALL COMPLEXITY. None of the theories even come close to taking such an incredible task.

Fossil record is clear on the Origin of Species - Cambrian explosion, lack of intermediate fossils. The fossil is the last place evolutionists would want to scrutinize. Even now the slogan "Evolution is true without fossils" is become so common to the extent that the worlds leading publicizers has publicly declared it openly. It shows how how gluey the minds of the those afflicted with chronic deceit. They just dont want to let go even though the 100 Million fossils are staring right in their eyes. I think all evolutionists need a trial of anti-psychotics. Perhaps then we might get a period in which all delusional activity will be a minimum and perhaps then the point and evidence will penetrate through.
Anonymous said...
Sorry typed in haste again.I meant to say All the laws you mentioned can NEVER be equated with the objective task Evolution is supposed to represent.
Science Student said...
Tom
You have not yet given any scientific explanation
Tom said...
Maybe you should actually read Negoro's paper (it doesn't say anything about "false lies" or discredit evolution). Here is the science, start reading... where is yours? You guys continue to show that you have not read a word I've wasted here. You have shown you haven't a clue about what evolution is or what the theory says. Please, please read something on evolution that is current and accurate... click my name for Coyne's book. There are many other simple ones to read. Neil Shubin and Donald R. Prothero are other good authors. Good bye... I am not coming back. I am tired of looking at Yahya's stupidly smug face. I hope you guys see the light someday and escape the delusion of creationism.


[1] Appearance of novel capabilities in organisms via mutation and selection - Nylonase enzymes in Japanese Flavobacterium species:

A New Nylon Oligomer Degradation Gene (nylC) on Plasmid pOAD2 from a Flavobacterium sp. by Seiji Negoro, Shinji Kakudo, Itaru Urabe, and Hirosuke Okadam, Journal of Bacteriology, Dec. 1992, p. 7948-7953

Birth of a unique enzyme from an alternative reading frame of the pre-existed, internally repetitious coding sequence by Susumu Ohno, Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA, Vol. 81, pp. 2421-2425, April 1984

[2] Appearance of novel capabilities in organisms via mutation and selection - Antifreeze Glycoproteins in Antarctic Notothenioid fishes:

Convergent Evolution of Antifreeze Glycoproteins in Antarctic Notothenioid Fishes and Arctic Cod by Liangbiao Chen, Arthur L. deVries and Chi-Hing C. Cheng, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the USA, vol 94, pp 3817-3822, 1997

Evolution of an Antifreeze Glycoprotein by Liangbiao Chen and Chi-Hing C. Cheng, Nature, vol 401, pp 443-444, 1999

Functional Antifreeze Glycoprotein Genes in Temperate-Water New Zealand Nototheniid Fishes Infer An Antarctic Evolutionary Origin by Chi-Hing C Cheng, Liangbiao Chen, Thomas J Near and Yumi Jin, Journal of Molecular and Biological Evolution, Vol 20, no 11, pp 1897-1908, 2003

Nonhepatic Origin of Notothenioid Antifreeze Reveals Pancreatic Synthesis As Common Mechanism in Polar Fish Freezing Avoidance by Chi-Hing C Cheng, Paul A. Cziko and Clive W. Evans, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the USA, vol 103, pp 10491-10496, 2006

[3] Speciation events observed in the laboratory:

Evidence for rapid speciation following a founder event in the laboratory by J.R. Weinberg V. R. Starczak and P. Jora, Evolution vol 46, pp 1214-1220, 1992

Experimentally Created Incipient Species of Drosophila by Theodosius Dobzhansky & Olga Pavlovsky, Nature 230, pp 289 - 292 (02 April 1971)

Founder-flush speciation in Drosophila pseudoobscura: a large scale experiment by A. Galiana, A. Moya and F. J. Alaya, Evolution vol 47, pp 432-444, 1993 (Speciation event in Drosophila melanogaster)

Phagotrophy by a flagellate selects for colonial prey: A possible origin of multicellularity byM.E. Boraas, D.B. Seale and J.E. Boxhorn, Evolutionary Ecology Vol. 12, no. 2, pp. 153-164. Feb 1998


[4] Speciation events in nature and supporting phylogenetic evidence:

Adaptive Evolution And Explosive Speciation: The Cichlid Fish Model by Thomas D. Kocher, Nature Reviews: Genetics, 5: 288-298 (April 2004)

Cichlid Species Flocks of the Past and Present by A. Meyer, Heredity vol 95, 419-420, 20 July 2005

Drosophila paulistorum: A Cluster of Species in Statu Nascendi by Theodosius Dobzhansky & Boris Spassky, Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA., 45(3): 419-428 (1959)

3 comments:

  1. Jjamshed Moidu isn't interested in the mountain of evidence for evolution. He is intersted in promoting ignorance on behalf of his cult leader Adnan Oktar. oktar can't write the books attributed to him. He gets a team of cultists to cut and paste American creationist articles together and then passes it all off as hs own work. Oktar is entirely ignorant of science, especially biology. A fact that is immediately apparent to anyone that has read any of "his" work.
    Oktar is now in prison for backmail and other crimes. Which shows that he and his cult aren't reliable sources of information for anything.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Yeah, I know. I had to try. Maybe I made some impression to one of Moidu's readers. They are like a brick wall and just as dense.
    Thanks for the comment.

    ReplyDelete