How I told/tell people I am atheist

As a kid (10 yrs old):

My 5th grade friend and I were playing with an electronics kit and he said if Ii didn't believe in Jesus I would go to hell.  I just looked at him and said I didn't think so.  He said uh huh.  I said uh uh.  And then we made the kit produce a siren sound and his mom came running afraid that the police would come.  This was in Dacca, East Pakistan in the late 60's, they were Baptist missionaries.  My dad is a geologist.

At work late 90's (43 yrs old):

I sneezed at my desk one day and an engineering co-worker at a cubicle across the aisle said "bless you".  I said nothing and then as an afterthought joke he asked "What does an atheist say after he sneezes and you say 'bless you'?"  He didn't know I was atheist and I don't know why he thought it would be funny but I said "I generally say 'Thank you'." He looked at me and then went back to his desk, my impression was that he was surprised, especially since I was his manager.  From that day on I made it clear that I was atheist at work.  Being a manager of the group may have stymied some discussion, but I don't think so.  My mentions are matter of fact only when the subject comes up.  I have one Catholic co-worker who will question and joke with me about it which shocks others sometimes, especially since I hold my own and joke back at her.  But then I've had one come to me on the side and agree with some of my replies, Facebook rants or a comment from the news, especially when it concerns the Pope.  These gals I'll often send science nerd news that shows them how the universe really works, trying to get them to see the real perspective of where we are in the universe.  My morals are probably what has surprised them the most.  Why am I so nice?  Why don't I just want to rape and murder?  What keeps me from trying that?  Seeing the charity things I do used to just baffle them.  I had to explain how altruism benefits a population and that it is natural for me to be good.

Meeting for breakfast the Baptist minister parents of my girlfriend's roommate, who happened to be a Methodist pastor at the time herself.  (Yes, my lapsed Catholic, almost atheist, girlfriend lived with a Methodist pastor when I met her.)  I knew I was going to be asked about my religion at this breakfast but had no prepared answer, mainly because I didn't know how it would come.  Tarah's dad turned to me and asked how I was brought up.  I said, "I was brought up pretty much straight."  What did that mean?  I don't know.  That is what came out of my mouth.  I then qualified that I didn't have any religion growing up and don't have any now.  He was so amused by the "growing up straight" that the topic ended there.  That forced me to have the "I'm atheist" answer ready to use.  One of many moments in life I'd like to do over again but at least learned from.

At the airport in the 2010's:

Friends at the airport, fellow pilots, event volunteers who are also friends on Facebook have seen my posts about atheism.  Three have come up to me on the side and said that they don't believe either.  I hadn't read Why Atheists are so Angry yet so didn't encourage them to come out.  I've read that now and also participate in the Santa Cruz skeptics meet-up group.  That has honed my ability to discuss the issues of religion.  

I am proud that I am atheist.  I feel I dodged a bullet when I realize how much of my life was not wasted with religion.  I've not once regretted expressing my atheism and have been pleasantly surprised by the agreement I've received, even quietly.  But then I live in Santa Cruz county and work in Santa Clara county, pretty safe place to be atheist with bumper stickers and open discussion about religion.  I've been flipped off a few times on the road but never had anyone in my face about being godless.  Online is a different matter… but then I will comment on religious FB and Twitter posts without too much hesitation.  Yes, I can be a troll.  Not actively all the time, but it happens.  I've been angry and I've been reasonable and patient.  Maybe it has gotten through to someone on the sidelines.

I was told to look in the mirror as an answer to this.

I look in the mirror and don't see any hatred of minorities. I am a minority. I've tolerated religion all my life and still do, I don't oppress anyone, and seldom make claims without evidence. However, religion doesn't get a free pass anymore. If it makes claims that can't be substantiated, it gets questioned. No longer is faith a virtue. No longer can religion claim moral high ground. No longer can religion claim the only purpose and meaning to life. No longer can religion claim any explanation for why or how we came to be. Showing where religion is wrong is rational human growth, progress out of darkness and superstition. That isn't war, that's rational thought. That's growing out of fear and into understanding of our place in the universe. If the religious feel embattled and persecuted, they should consider the arguments they make based on ancient texts and personal anecdotes that usually are easily explained by statistics, imperfect human perception, and corruption.

I do hate. I hate mutilation of children's genitals in the name of religion. I hate stoning of women on religious grounds. I hate the child abuse that is telling a small child that they will burn in hell without proper belief in gods/Jesus/whatever. I hate the undemocratic control religion has over people with the subsequent inevitable abuse of power. Hate is not always a bad thing.

God in judgment

Today 20 kids lost their lives. 

Mike Huckbee has an opinion.


So do I.“[W]e’ve made it a place where we don’t want to talk about eternity, life, what responsibility means, accountability — that we’re not just going to have be accountable to the police if they catch us, but one day we stand before, you know, a holy God in judgment,” Huckabee said. “If we don’t believe that, then we don’t fear that.”

Why would I fear a God who is so ineffective as to be totally unable to at least call the cops before the shooting starts? It never has before. Or maybe this god is malevolent and shouldn't get our attention. Or is uncaring and there is no point in our attention. Or. There is no god. Mike Huckabee... you've wasted your life on something that doesn't exist. How sad for you. Not nearly as sad as losing 20 kids you think could have been prevented with fear and superstition. Action by us here and now could have prevented it, not fear and superstition. Those kids have lost their one and only lives, they do not go to a better place. They are lost to us. Their lives have been lost, they will never be who they could have been. We will never know who they could have been. This is the price paid for supposed rights (god given in some minds) of gun ownership and personal responsibility that limits aid to mental illness. 

The first five shots I blame on the lack of health care in this country, the rest on the NRA.

There is Always a Price

I was listening to George Hrab's Geologic Podcast episode where he replies to a new atheist about the loss of a loved one.  George made a point I had known but never knew how to put into words.

Everything has a cost or a price.  That car you want.  The career you strive for.  The power or status you crave.  Also other things less materialistic like ethics and morals.   Learning and research.   But maybe the heaviest price is paid for friendships and relationships.

This isn't saying it is bad to pay a price for these things, only that it is there in many forms.  And it may be that the emotional price of a relationship is the biggest for most of us.

When do we pay the price?  Sometimes the relationship is costly as it progresses no matter how it ends.  A relationship may be costly at the beginning for many reasons.  But it seems that at the end of a relationship is where the highest costs are, especially with death, because this is when the realization that you'll never be seeing that person (or pet) again sets in and the sorrow for the loss is the final emotional cost of that relationship.

I think the price is worth paying for a good relationship and most of us do.  Some of us avoid the price by avoiding or limiting relationships which I think limits life too much.  But other people avoid the cost by pretending there is a place where we all go when we die, where the relationship will continue for eternity as if that is a desirable thing.  Besides the fact that this is totally made up with no evidence, it is also cheating, diminishing the price of the relationship lost.  "Oh, I'll just see mom in Heaven when it is my time" is a dismissal of the relationship.  To diminish the cost of the loss with wishful thinking about an afterlife is denial of the cost of the relationship.  It's like shoplifting a candy bar, a short quick satisfaction and doesn't really satisfy the hunger and has it's own cost.

I don't think most people really feel all that much better thinking that there is an afterlife.  The loss is huge, the pain is real, the sorrow is deep for most of us anyway.  Why cheapen the meaning of the relationship with this fantasy/wish for a later reunion?

There might be more thoughts on this...

Killing children again.

Barrage of rocket attacks slam southern Israel

Over 30 rockets fired at Israel after missile hit IDF jeep on border patrol, injuring 4 soldiers; IDF tank shelling kills 4 Palestinians.

Christians United for Israel (CUFI)

Like This Page · 6 hours ago 

Prayer Alert- more than 30 rockets and mortars have been fired on Southern Israel. Israelis near the boarder with Gaza were told to stay within 15 seconds of a safe room. LIKE to join us in praying for the one million Israeli men, women, and children living under the threat of rockets tonight. http://bit.ly/Q4Pp5h


Not mentioned is that the Israeli retaliation resulted in the death and injuries of children.

‎/S Ooh! Ooh! The religious cranks killing the other religious cranks's children again because they killed their children for killing those children through slow starvation and depravation because their children were killed with suicide bombing children. And then there's the other religious cranks who will kill to keep an unborn child alive at all costs standing on the side egging on the fighting that kills children in hopes of the big killing spree that brings on the magical guy who will make everything better after everything is horribly horribly worse. Awesome. Bronze aged magical thinking armed with 21st century weapons. /SarcasmOff Reason #37 why I am an angry atheist.

Like prayer has helped at all in the last 60 years or so.

Sikh Temple Killer

I don't want to know the killer's name.  I don't want to see his face.  I'm not interested in his motive.  I don't care.

I  Don't  Care

I don't care because who he was and why he did it is irrelevant.  Unimportant.  Meaningless.  He removed his relevancy when he chose to commit this act.  He removed himself from our society and attacked it without provocation.  His actions are probably a symptom of our our society's failure to educate but that doesn't mean he needs to be glorified (even negatively) by the media.  The best way to fight against this form of terrorism is to ignore the killer.  Don't give him relevancy since he has none.

I only care about the innocent people who were murdered and their families and community.  They are relevant.  Who were they?  What did they do?  What will they do now?

Free Speech and Feminism

Speaking Out Against Hate Directed at Women: Matt Dillahunty

"When someone expresses a concern that something is making them feel unwelcome, we need to address it. Period."

"When someone expresses a concern that something is making them feel unwelcome, we need to address it. Period."

"When you hear a complaint that someone has raised, you might think that they’re expressing an irrational, emotional, over-reaction to the situation. You might even be correct – but it doesn’t matter, and here’s why:
You don’t get to decide what someone else finds offensive.
You don’t get to decide what someone else finds uncomfortable, unwelcoming, disconcerting, stressful, harassing, troubling or painful."

I fully support Dillahunty's position here.  How to reconcile this with the value that no one has the right to not be offended?  (I'm just trying to process his words here)

• Women are being excluded from the skeptical/atheist community by some ingrained and outdated attitudes that get expressed.  Mostly there is no intent to exclude but because of a lack of empathy, there is insensitivity to what is offensive, excluding, and threatening.
• The community wants women involved and active.  Any who don't aren't really part of the community.
• If I offend someone in the community who I want to ally with, then I need to understand why.  Not take offense that they took offense.
• This doesn't mean my free speech rights are curtailed or have limits. 
• It doesn't mean women have the right to not be offended.  
• It means I need to re-look at what and how I say things.  Or reassess my membership in the community.
• Is this censorship?  Not if it is an increase in understanding and knowledge.

This week in the War on Women: Republicans want to fight about lady parts some more? Okay.

This week in the War on Women: Republicans want to fight about lady parts some more? Okay.

Just in case you thought the GOP war on women has subsided... it hasn't. Time to donate more to Planned Parent Parenthood.


I do.

• Catherine Gile Where is the outrage when baby girls are aborted simply because they are girls?
  

  5 hours ago via mobile · 
• 
  

  Tom Hail Planned Parenthood opposes sex selection abortion. Rational thinkers oppose it. Education and real prenatal assistance prevent it. Stifling PP and other such organizations on puritanical grounds solves nothing and makes the problem bigger. http://shar.es/tOmBK
  

  
  

  http://shar.es/tOmBK

  www.plannedparenthood.org
  

  ‎"Planned Parenthood health centers provide high-quality preventive health care ...See More

  
  

  37 minutes ago ·  · 

You Didn't Build That

Shit, did you wing nuts actually listen to the whole _sentence_ before jumping on this?  No, you trusted Rmoney's campaign staff to tell you what he said.  Here it is for you.  Here is the CONTEXT for you.  "Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen."

You fucking morons are driving this country into the dirt.

You are lying.  Because you know what he meant.

Feminism in Skepticism

There has been some discussion of harassment of women at skeptical events such as The Amazing Meeting (TAM).  The worry is that women will stop coming to these events, understandably, because they aren't there to get hit on.  It seems some guys can't take no for an answer.  At Cognitive Dissonance I posted the following comment to their excellent support for women: "I appreciate you position on feminism in the skeptical communities.  I think you made many great points and I hope you got through to some thick heads.  Sometimes the blunt truth is the best.  DJ Grothe's handeling of this hasn't been very impressive to me.  My 20-something daughter and I are paid up for TAM this year again before I realized this issue.  We had an awesome time last year with 40% female attendance.  I hope to hell that this year isn't an 18% female sausage fest.  If that happens I'm not going back, like you said, I'm paying a lot of money I can't really afford to be there.  I'm not there to hit on anyone (my gal would be sad), I want to listen and talk to anyone with something interesting to say.  Having the other half of the population show up doubles those chances!  I do hope that women realize staying away doesn't help their position, they have to stand up to sexism and harassment.  Make noise, make it clear why and how it is wrong.  Avoiding it won't solve it.  I'll stand with them if they are there.  I applaud you for standing with them clearly and loudly.  Thanks!"

At Skepchick I found that Rebecca Watson won't be at TAM this year and I commented: "Rebecca, at Cognitive Dissonance I posted the following comment to their excellent support for women: "I appreciate you position on feminism in the skeptical communities.  I think you made many great points and I hope you got through to some thick heads.  Sometimes the blunt truth is the best.  DJ Grothe's handeling of this hasn't been very impressive to me (I am just learning how unimpressive).  My 20-something daughter and I are paid up for TAM this year again before I realized this issue.  We had an awesome time last year with 40% female attendance.  I hope to hell that this year isn't an 18% female sausage fest.  If that happens I'm not going back, like you said, I'm paying a lot of money I can't really afford to be there.  I'm not there to hit on anyone (my gal would be sad), I want to listen and talk to anyone with something interesting to say.  Having the other half of the population show up doubles those chances!  I do hope that women realize staying away doesn't help their position, they have to stand up to sexism and harassment.  Make noise, make it clear why and how it is wrong.  Avoiding it won't solve it.  I'll stand with them if they are there.  I applaud you for standing with them clearly and loudly.  Thanks!"  I am sad you won't be there this year, I was looking forward to meeting you if I could screw up my courage.  My daughter isn't one to back down for something like this and I am sure she still wants to go.  And I understand the point you make not appearing.  It is a good point.  As a manager in a large corporation with a high percentage of women engineers and staff, harassment is NOT tolerated.  It is reenforced yearly and serious.  It is clear and no nonsense.  No wink-wink smirks and management to the top supports it.  The culture has definitely changed in the 30 years I've been there.  I didn't realize this level of tough love is necessary at TAM and elsewhere.  Rebecca, thanks for what you do and keep it up!"

Obama is destroying America?

I was reading some comments (trolling) at CNSNews (yeah, what was I thinking?  The stupid! It burns!) and kept seeing the comment "Obama is destroying this country".  Really?  How so?  The right has been saying this for years and I finally wanted to try to understand why they think that.  It wasn't hard to find some blogs and articles but the paragraph below from biggovernment.com seems to nail a basis for the fear.

"Liberals think that the U.S. is arrogant and needs to be taken down a notch or three. Liberals think that U.S. history is filled with nothing but evil and any attacks on the U.S. are richly deserved. Liberals think that theU.S. was founded by evil, selfish, hateful white men who were only interested in their own power and didn’t want to empower others. So, liberals want the founder’s memory eviscerated. Liberals think that ourcapitalist system needs to be eliminated. In short, liberals value nothing about the U.S. except its tradition of self-actuation, liberty, and its freedom to re-make itself and they want to use that capacity to erase everything that makes the U.S.A. the U.S.A. Once that is done they want to build a U.S. to their own liking using the very freedoms they used to lay her low."

So, I want to take this apart.   My opinion here as a liberal, not doing any research.

• The US is arrogant and needs to be taken down a notch:  I think the US has made some mistakes and backed some bad people for purely selfish reasons.  We have done and I expect we will do much good in the world and want to continue to do more good with fewer mistakes.
• US history is full of evil:  No, we have done many good things and we do not deserve punishing attacks like 9/11 or whatever they imagine.  We do deserve criticism like any other country.  Because we are the most influential, we are the biggest target and get more than other countries.  Are we perfect?  No.  Can we improve?  Yes.  
• US was founded by evil selfish white men:  It was founded by white men, yes.  Evil?  Not at all!  Jefferson, Pain, Madison, Adams, Franklin and others weren't evil!  No liberal thinks that!  The Constitution has got to be one of the greatest documents ever written.  Certainly greater than any holy book.  The fact that this is a capitalist country is not evil in itself, but it is evident that capitalism requires control by government.  The trick is to balance the control properly.  Don't want to empower others?  If I like the Constitution and don't think corporations are people how is that not wanting to empower others?  This makes no sense.
• Liberals want the founders memory eviscerated:  Wow.  I think he is making stuff up out of his own fears.  Where has a liberal said that?
• Our capitalist system needs to be eliminated:  No.  It needs controls to prevent corporations from abusing the power they have over people.  Unchecked capitalism has no morals.  Again, the power of government is a tricky thing and in this country, we haven't succeeded in getting it right and because of the fears the right has about government, it is hard to get consensus in this divided country.  Capitalism isn't perfect but I know of no better economic system.
• Liberals value nothing about the US:  No, not at all!  What makes the USA the USA?  Is it the fact that health care is a for-profit industry?  That corporations are people?  That education is mediocre? That corporate profit is all important?  That most wealth and wages are concentrated in 1% of the population?  I don't think so.  I think these things need to change because they are not American values and goals and certainly not the America the founders were founding.  I do value highly my rights to opinion, not to have religion, freedom of speech, freedom to pursue my way of life and ability to go where I want.  Fearful right wing policies have done more harm to these freedoms and rights than anything Obama has ever done.

So Obama is destroying America?  If you really believe the above is what liberals think and want, then you would think Obama is doing this.  The things the right thinks he is doing to accomplish this is mostly exaggerated and fear based.  Like growing government.  Santorum said Obama is "expanding federal government" out of control.  Really?  Federal employment has been dropping for years.  The budget has been falling with respect to GDP.  How is government expanding?  Regulations?  Is that it?  Then say it.  But that is what capitalism needs.  Uncontrolled capitalism has no morals.   If this is what Obama  and liberals are against, then so be it.  But uncontrolled capitalism is not America.

Why does anyone like Ron Paul?

So, why are these people supporting a crazy, racist Christian fundamentalist?

http://ashleyfmiller.wordpress.com/2011/12/11/why-does-anyone-like-ron-paul/

Take the risk of thinking for yourself

"Take the risk of thinking for yourself. Much more happiness, truth, beauty and wisdom will come to you that way."

As did Hitchens, my grandfather Evan lived his life like he didn't know enough, couldn't know enough.

I'm going to miss Christopher Hitchens

North Korea and heaven. Heaven would be worse.

9/10/11

19 terrorists attacked the US with box cutters.  It took us nearly 10 years, an additional 6000 dead and 60,000 wounded, $2 Trillion to kill Osama Bin Laden.  We may be safer, we are not stronger.  We are in debt, our military exhausted, our politics in deadlock, our people fed up with our leaders.  Our civil rights and freedoms are under question and attack.  Who is winning?

Irrational belief in rhino horn power...

"IPSWICH, England — The Ipswich Museum contains many alluring and potentially theft-worthy items, including a spectacular 2,000-year-old gold-leaf Egyptian death mask on loan from the British Museum and a rare Hawaiian cape featuring feathers from the extinct o’o bird. But when two thieves forced their way in after midnight on July 28, they were seeking something else entirely.Never mind that their target, a large rhinoceros horn, was still attached to its owner, which had been standing blamelessly in the museum since 1907."

And now they are stealing horn from museums? For some reason the killing of rhinos for their horn so that some inadequate prick somewhere can pretend to be enhanced sexually with it enrages me. (yeah, what else is new?) Why is that? Could it be the stupidity of a totally irrational belief in rhino horn power causing the slaughter of thousands of people.... oops rhinos?

Storm

Yay! Storm (The Movie) is out!

AC Grayling on the evils of earthquakes

Thanking god for what?

"For if he is not competent to stop an earthquake or save its victims, he is definitely not competent to create a world. And if he is powerful enough to do both, but created a dangerous world that inflicts violent and agonizing sufferings arbitrarily on sentient creatures, then he is vile."

Why bother worship that which can't help, won't help, or is incompetent to help.

Finding Truth

Wallidjan,

I watched the video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GADt13X3OBI).  It said nothing other than what you've already said... look around, stuff is complex, there must be a god because stuff is complex.  Someone must have created it all.

How did the flawless order of the whole universe come into being?

Who provided the delicate balances in the world?

How did living beings, incredibility diversified in nature, emerge?

Asking these questions and resigning (submitting) yourself to the easy answer of "god did it" is the way to The Truth?

I am sorry.  No.  Not going to happen.  These questions have very good, god-free, answers.

It isn't flawless in any way.

Nobody.

Evolution.

You kept saying how complex the inner workings of a single cell is.  Yes it is.  But it is understandable and even though I am not a micro-biologist, I know they have very detailed knowledge of how proteins and DNA and all the other compounds of the inner cell work to do the things they do.  The knowledge base of cell mechanics is huge and there is no magic involved.  You are going to claim a designer had to have put it all together.  No, there are natural paths to how the cells evolved.  Chemical reactions are predictable and traceable.  It isn't magic.  How chemistry works isn't magic, it is even easier than biology to test and examine since now you are dealing with the basic elements and chemical reactions.  And these are predictable from the mechanisms of quantum and particle physics.  All the way to the big bang we can trace how things work.  Our universe is probably only one of infinitely many, each with it's own characteristics.  This is the one we exist in.  It is that simple. No god necessary.

A month of listening to the Nature podcast would show you how much they know about the inner workings of cells, physics, chemistry, cosmology.  

http://www.nature.com/nature/podcast/

"A Universe From Nothing" by Lawrence Krauss, beautiful talk on the creation of the universe.  Clear, easily understood, and it even makes sense!

Short clip to tease you to watch the long version: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfOL_oGgRVk

Long version: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ImvlS8PLIo

Very much worth the  time.

Pull yourself out of the grips of this medieval backward belief, it will only drag you down with it.

Tom

Some funny stuff

I read this somewhere. I think it was a comment on a post about rioting about blasphemy.

"I don't understand why circumambulating and yodeling while making Micky Mouse ears gestures in grandma's pajama around a supposed moon rock makes goat herders frenzy into mass hysteria resulting in crimes against goats."

Also this from PZ:

"Michele Bachmann is clearly not in communication with the mother ship."

and this:
Anderson Cooper Wallops Bachmann For 'Flunking History'
Bachmann is so scary she is funny.