God exists - and is eloquently described in the Quran.

I got into it with a British Muslim on YouTube... very disturbing how brainwashed he is.

bojoben Can any of you prove this? That your God exists? Im not attacking, im just wondering.

Britishfever456 Its not just one person's God. This is everyone's God. The God of the Sun, the God of the moon, the God of the heavens, the earth etc etc. What proof are you looking for? Are you looking for God comming down to earth so that you can see Him?

tube2a Proof comes also with having reason to believe. There is no established need for there to be a god, no proof, no nothing, so it is thus unreasonable to believe in such an abstract entity.

Britishfever456 What do you mean by "established need?" If you are referring to the likes of Dawkins, they haven't really established anything... I don't think people believe in God because its about a need for God to exist. That itself is an abstract thought. I come from an Atheist background. God exists - and is eloquently described in the Quran. Substantiate to me why He, the Almighty Allah, doesn't or cannot exist?

fly44d There is no need for a god to exist to explain who we are, why we are here, etc. God is unnecessary in this universe, in our lives. So, he needs to show himself if he exists. So what if he is eloquently described in the Quran, that doesn't mean he exists. Eloquent prose is only eloquent prose. It isn't evidence. Why god created a universe where he is unnecessary and then hides is pretty senseless. More likely, he doesn't exist at all.

Britishfever456 I didn't say you should believe in God because He is so eloquently described. Nor do people believe in God to explain who we are, why we are here, etc. God isn't hiding at all. God is pure, and if you want to find Him, He asks people to purify themselves first. Almighty Allah gives people most things they need, so that they maybe grateful. Most are not willing to come out of a life of alcohol, fornication etc. How do they expect to find Allah?

fly44d Of course people believe in god because they derive purpose and attribute cause from that belief. That is the only reason religion exists. God doesn't give anybody anything. We all work for what we have. He is hiding if only the select can see him. That is the definition of hiding. I have a life of love, community, hard work, and honor. Where is god? No sign of him. I have to grovel and beg to see him? Sorry, that is hiding. More likely he doesn't exist.

Britishfever456 "derive purpose and attribute cause" is why you feel others believe. God gives everything we have, only some appreciate and acknowledge God and others don't. Just because someone doesn't believe in God doesn't mean God will take it away from them. God gives so that, per chance, people may be appreciative. If He chooses to He can take it away too. Some kids never see their father. Others are born deformed... God does what He wills and He says you will be tested in one form or another.

fly44d You just agreed with me. "God gives so that, per chance, people may be appreciative. If He chooses to He can take it away too." That is attributing cause to god. Why was this child deformed? God willed it. Those are your words. A cosmic ray damaging a gene somewhere in the embryo at the wrong moment without intent, randomly isn't considered, nope god did it so we can fear and or appreciate him. Why would anyone want to believe this? Why does this make any kind of sense to anyone?

Britishfever456 God willed a "a cosmic ray damaging a gene somewhere in the embryo at the wrong moment" will full intent, as the Lord as full control over all matters, is more logical and plausible than calling it a random chance event. There is a reason behind it that only Almighty God knows. The same "cosmic ray" assuming it had penetrated the mothers womb, could quite easily not have caused the genetic mutation, if Allah Almighty didn't will it.

fly44d How pathetic. You actually believe that. The universe is huge, rare things happen all the time. Trillions of cells reproducing all the time with trillions of cosmic rays falling on us and you claim god willed it. And hides so that it isn't obvious that he did it, you taking on faith that he has an intent and reason behind it. Faith that he had a reason for Haiti, for routing our (all mammals) larynx nerve around our aorta. More likely he doesn't exist and you are deluded.

Britishfever456 So Great is the Lord that we bow to Him 5 times a day. I think you (like most I guess) already have a concept of a God based on your own ideas/ upbringing and are unwilling to let go of these preconceived ideas, and try and understand who this Almighty Lord is. God is not hiding. More likely, you fall into the category that Allah calls "Deaf, dumb and blind; and they return not." Quran 2:18 All praises are to the Allah, the Lord of the Alameen.

fly44d I have no concept of any god. I see no evidence of any god. I hear stories and claims but there's nothing there. No sign of this supposedly powerful being. Just explainable nature acting according to its laws. No need for any god. Next time you look at a flower, think of the maelstrom of quantum physics driving the bubbling chemistry in every cell producing the biology of that plant whose place in the ecosystem is just one small piece of the cycle of life you are part of. That is not blind.

Britishfever456 Just because you think you manage to explain some of nature through words such as quantum physics, biology or chemistry (maybe some of the explanations are correct even) doesn't mean God doesn't exist. God gave you an intellect like no other creature on the planet hence we're able to contemplate. He created the universe, planets, stars for us so that we can attest to His majesty. He gave you and I what little we know. He also gives guidance to whom He wills.

Britishfever456 Deafness is when man doesn't listen to what he needs to listen of the Lord. Dumbness is when he is unable or refuses to comprehend the Lord. Blindness is when he is unable to see the Majesty of his Lord. Allah says of such people, "In their hearts is a disease, and Allah increases their disease. A painful doom is theirs because they lie." Quran 2:10

Britishfever456 I can analyse a piece of paper to such a degree that I can eventually relate the fibres of the paper to the tree in the forest. It makes me a bit knowledgeable (and God enabled this knowledge) about how paper is created assuming I had no knowledge of it beforehand. Just because I can explain how clouds form and how the water cycle works doesn't make God any less relevant here. All of what God gives if for His creation. This is why Muslims prostrate to the Almighty God.

fly44d Have you any concept of how big the universe is measured to be? We are a thin organic film on an insignificant world going around one sun of billions in a galaxy that is just one of billions in the universe so vast that it takes light billions of years to travel just a small part of it. He created all of that so we can marvel at him? You seriously believe that? You should seriously question that belief.

fly44d So what is the purpose of all this prostrating and attesting to his majesty? If he has created all this, surly he doesn't need our feeble little gestures. What makes you think he cares the least whit about what we do or say or think? Is there any sign that he does? Other than what you may imagine in between your ears or the tightness in your chest from fear?

fly44d Being able to explain the workings of the universe and seeing that NONE of it requires a god to work, makes god irrelevant.

The rest may be found here, maybe..

No longer bold old pilot.

Scruffy old pilot.

Gone past the bold part.

Small airplane, big sky!

Poor Liz worked in her classroom today. I got to fly by and wave at her.

Flying

Covered up, tied down, $35 poorer and mentally richer.

A little time with PZ Myers

Allena, her roommate Heather and I got to listen to PZ Myers at DeAnza college today. He talked about the things Creationists do to try to argue against evolution and science. Is that it? Mostly is was list of adjectives you could use to describe creationists. Obtuse is my favorite one.

Obtuse: lacking in insight or discernment; dense: slow to learn or understand; lacking intellectual acuity;

Actually, I think creationists like Ray Comfort isn't obtuse, I think he is deliberately lying for his own gain. He has a lucrative gig with his creationist character and is milking it for all it is worth.

After the talk was an even longer Q&A session that was wide ranging and quite interesting. I had a couple of questions but held them to myself... hard to break the shyness barrier. I did at the end get PZ to desecrate (sign) Allena's copy of the Comfort edition of Origin of Species. That was pretty funny.

At the post event beer and pizza at BJ's in Cupertino, there was too much noise from the football game to hear what was going on at PZ's end of the table, but we had some great conversations at our end with some young people. Very nice time!

Moral Absolutes

Ok, who's watch did 9/11 occur on?

It's been pretty aggravating to see the talking right blather about how there weren't any terrorist attacks in George Bush's time in office after 9/11 (??). Never mind the 9 months prior to 9/11 he didn't stop the attack. Never mind the anthrax attack. Or Richard Reid. Or the LA airport shootings. Never mind the thousands of Americans who died in Iraq for no apparent purpose. Never mind Osama Bin Laden remained on the loose throughout his Presidency. Rudy, Palin, etc can just STFU.

blithering batshit imbecility

"Is there some theoretical limit to how fucking stupid Sarah Palin can be?
You know…some mathematical formula which describes the absolute limit of stupid, beyond which not even thought can escape…the event horizon of brainlessness. If there is, I have little doubt that Sarah Palin would laugh as she demonstrated that she can shrink her brain beyond infinitely small and infinitely dense, and utter a new string of blithering batshit imbecility that would make drool seem smart."

This cracked me up. I had to send it to everyone.

Being a spiritual atheist

Being atheist doesn’t mean you can’t meditate, be in the moment, experience the awe of nature and life, empathize with those in pain, be very close to those you love. If that isn’t spiritual, I guess I don’t know what it is. Next time you look at a flower and think of the maelstrom of quantum physics driving the bubbling chemistry in every cell producing the biology of that plant whose place in the ecosystem is just one small piece of the cycle of life you are part of... You are being many times more spiritual than someone who says “what a pretty flower god made”. But all you often can say to someone who says you are spiritually bereft is “how little you know.”

The presumption of Rick Warren

"While we have all the flaws concomitant with being children of chance, we also have an advantage: we're free. There is no cosmic fiddler. There is no domineering father in the sky who has a mission for us, who decreed at our birth that there is something we must do with our lives, who has slotted you into one specific role without your consent. You are not driven by an arbitrary external purpose, and you should find the idea of such a daily dictator of every detail of your existence abhorrent to an extreme.

It's a real mystery to me why anyone would find the deterministic slave-philosophy of Rick Warren at all appealing or consoling, especially since the evidence all says that it is wrong, as well. There must be something some people find pleasant in surrendering responsibility to an imaginary scapegoat.

Personally, I appreciate the fact that I'm a combination of traits, some lucky and some unlucky, that are mine and not the product of the whims of some puppetmaster. I'll make of them what I can and what I will, and who I am is my responsibility and to my credit or blame."

Zoe Keating

I sure enjoy watching and listening to her.

This atheist enjoys the Holidays!

Atheists enjoy the holidays as much as anyone else. We don't observe the religious aspects, obviously; but we care about family and friends as much as anybody, and we are as happy to celebrate with them during a time of darkness and cold as much as anybody.

I am having a very nice Holiday. I had a nice visit to my Grandfather's house where my sister, her family and parents were also visiting along with my daughters. We had a great time yesterday with Liz's sister and nephew and made a very nice dinner, and I have had a relaxing day at the airport with friends and at home with Liz. The days are dark and cloudy but the time with friends and family has been relaxing and rejuvenating.

I cracked up...

I got this t-shirt for Christmas from Liz's sister and nephew. I love it!

The Reason for the Season

At the time of the winter solstice, let reason prevail.

There are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell.

There is only our natural world.

Religion is just myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds.

"...the midwinter seasonal holiday was created by people with the superstitious belief that supernatural transitions accompanied natural ones, and these few days are traditionally special because of a belief in their magical importance, and every religion attaches some godly event to the solstice season. It's why you'll get a day off on Christmas, which means it was good for something. So just pause, bow your head, and think about Jesus. And reject him.

Also consider God, the Holy Ghost, all the prophets and saints, the angels and demons, the Great Old Ones, any pantheon ever erected in heaven, all the ghosts and boojums, and deny them, every one. Think about all the pious, sanctimonious god-bothers who tell you to worship their dead gods on this day, and tell them, "No."

You're free.

Feels good, doesn't it? Remember the reason for the season, and be sure to go "Ho ho ho!" at it now and then, and let laughter fill your home."

Theodicy III: Primo Levi versus Francis Collins « Why Evolution Is True

Theodicy III: Primo Levi versus Francis Collins « Why Evolution Is True:
"Silence slowly prevails and then, from my bunk on the top row, I see and hear old Kuhn praying aloud, with his beret on his head, swaying backwards and forwards violently. Kuhn is thanking God because he has not been chosen.

Kuhn is out of his senses. Does he not see Beppo the Greek in the bunk next to him, Beppo who is twenty years old and is going to the gas-chamber the day after tomorrow and knows it and lies there looking fixedly at the light without saying anything and without even thinking anymore? Can Kuhn fail to realize that next time it will be his turn? Does Kuhn not understand that what has happened today is an abomination, which no propitiatory prayer, no pardon, no expiation by the guilty, which nothing at all in the power of man can ever clean again?

If I was God, I would spit at Kuhn’s prayer." - Primo Levi, Auschwitz survivor


“Frequent miraculous interventions would be at least as chaotic in the physical realm as they would be in interfering with human acts of free will.” - Francis Collins

And this same Collins shamelessly argues that God has fine-tuned the Universe, manufacturing, out of complete chaos, a Perfect Order of every molecule and every physical law in order to produce Mankind.

His God can shuffle galaxies at ease but is powerless to prevent cancer in children. And he worships this sh**head because he can make a frozen waterfall pretty.

He froze it in 3 strands as a special and personal “sign” that Christianity is true and delivered this sacred sign to the “humble” Collins himself. (Surely such signs take god’s time from the excision of cancerous cells in children.)"

I am finally understanding this free will crap. God gave us free will and won't interfere in the acts of men or of nature. Some such shit. God cares that I don't fly around the room but won't prevent me from killing a puppy? I have free will? Why can't I fly also? Killing a puppy is a physical act, why can't I fly? Francis Collins claims he found god when he came upon a waterfall one winter day frozen in three strands and is making these comments above quoted from his book. He was appointed by Obama to lead the NIH and was the director of the Human Genome Project which sequenced the human DNA. Incredible.