I got into it with a British Muslim on YouTube... very disturbing how brainwashed he is.
bojoben Can any of you prove this? That your God exists? Im not attacking, im just wondering.
Britishfever456 Its not just one person's God. This is everyone's God. The God of the Sun, the God of the moon, the God of the heavens, the earth etc etc. What proof are you looking for? Are you looking for God comming down to earth so that you can see Him?
tube2a Proof comes also with having reason to believe. There is no established need for there to be a god, no proof, no nothing, so it is thus unreasonable to believe in such an abstract entity.
Britishfever456 What do you mean by "established need?" If you are referring to the likes of Dawkins, they haven't really established anything... I don't think people believe in God because its about a need for God to exist. That itself is an abstract thought. I come from an Atheist background. God exists - and is eloquently described in the Quran. Substantiate to me why He, the Almighty Allah, doesn't or cannot exist?
fly44d There is no need for a god to exist to explain who we are, why we are here, etc. God is unnecessary in this universe, in our lives. So, he needs to show himself if he exists. So what if he is eloquently described in the Quran, that doesn't mean he exists. Eloquent prose is only eloquent prose. It isn't evidence. Why god created a universe where he is unnecessary and then hides is pretty senseless. More likely, he doesn't exist at all.
Britishfever456 I didn't say you should believe in God because He is so eloquently described. Nor do people believe in God to explain who we are, why we are here, etc. God isn't hiding at all. God is pure, and if you want to find Him, He asks people to purify themselves first. Almighty Allah gives people most things they need, so that they maybe grateful. Most are not willing to come out of a life of alcohol, fornication etc. How do they expect to find Allah?
fly44d Of course people believe in god because they derive purpose and attribute cause from that belief. That is the only reason religion exists. God doesn't give anybody anything. We all work for what we have. He is hiding if only the select can see him. That is the definition of hiding. I have a life of love, community, hard work, and honor. Where is god? No sign of him. I have to grovel and beg to see him? Sorry, that is hiding. More likely he doesn't exist.
Britishfever456 "derive purpose and attribute cause" is why you feel others believe. God gives everything we have, only some appreciate and acknowledge God and others don't. Just because someone doesn't believe in God doesn't mean God will take it away from them. God gives so that, per chance, people may be appreciative. If He chooses to He can take it away too. Some kids never see their father. Others are born deformed... God does what He wills and He says you will be tested in one form or another.
fly44d You just agreed with me. "God gives so that, per chance, people may be appreciative. If He chooses to He can take it away too." That is attributing cause to god. Why was this child deformed? God willed it. Those are your words. A cosmic ray damaging a gene somewhere in the embryo at the wrong moment without intent, randomly isn't considered, nope god did it so we can fear and or appreciate him. Why would anyone want to believe this? Why does this make any kind of sense to anyone?
Britishfever456 God willed a "a cosmic ray damaging a gene somewhere in the embryo at the wrong moment" will full intent, as the Lord as full control over all matters, is more logical and plausible than calling it a random chance event. There is a reason behind it that only Almighty God knows. The same "cosmic ray" assuming it had penetrated the mothers womb, could quite easily not have caused the genetic mutation, if Allah Almighty didn't will it.
fly44d How pathetic. You actually believe that. The universe is huge, rare things happen all the time. Trillions of cells reproducing all the time with trillions of cosmic rays falling on us and you claim god willed it. And hides so that it isn't obvious that he did it, you taking on faith that he has an intent and reason behind it. Faith that he had a reason for Haiti, for routing our (all mammals) larynx nerve around our aorta. More likely he doesn't exist and you are deluded.
Britishfever456 So Great is the Lord that we bow to Him 5 times a day. I think you (like most I guess) already have a concept of a God based on your own ideas/ upbringing and are unwilling to let go of these preconceived ideas, and try and understand who this Almighty Lord is. God is not hiding. More likely, you fall into the category that Allah calls "Deaf, dumb and blind; and they return not." Quran 2:18 All praises are to the Allah, the Lord of the Alameen.
fly44d I have no concept of any god. I see no evidence of any god. I hear stories and claims but there's nothing there. No sign of this supposedly powerful being. Just explainable nature acting according to its laws. No need for any god. Next time you look at a flower, think of the maelstrom of quantum physics driving the bubbling chemistry in every cell producing the biology of that plant whose place in the ecosystem is just one small piece of the cycle of life you are part of. That is not blind.
Britishfever456 Just because you think you manage to explain some of nature through words such as quantum physics, biology or chemistry (maybe some of the explanations are correct even) doesn't mean God doesn't exist. God gave you an intellect like no other creature on the planet hence we're able to contemplate. He created the universe, planets, stars for us so that we can attest to His majesty. He gave you and I what little we know. He also gives guidance to whom He wills.
Britishfever456 Deafness is when man doesn't listen to what he needs to listen of the Lord. Dumbness is when he is unable or refuses to comprehend the Lord. Blindness is when he is unable to see the Majesty of his Lord. Allah says of such people, "In their hearts is a disease, and Allah increases their disease. A painful doom is theirs because they lie." Quran 2:10
Britishfever456 I can analyse a piece of paper to such a degree that I can eventually relate the fibres of the paper to the tree in the forest. It makes me a bit knowledgeable (and God enabled this knowledge) about how paper is created assuming I had no knowledge of it beforehand. Just because I can explain how clouds form and how the water cycle works doesn't make God any less relevant here. All of what God gives if for His creation. This is why Muslims prostrate to the Almighty God.
fly44d Have you any concept of how big the universe is measured to be? We are a thin organic film on an insignificant world going around one sun of billions in a galaxy that is just one of billions in the universe so vast that it takes light billions of years to travel just a small part of it. He created all of that so we can marvel at him? You seriously believe that? You should seriously question that belief.
fly44d So what is the purpose of all this prostrating and attesting to his majesty? If he has created all this, surly he doesn't need our feeble little gestures. What makes you think he cares the least whit about what we do or say or think? Is there any sign that he does? Other than what you may imagine in between your ears or the tightness in your chest from fear?
fly44d Being able to explain the workings of the universe and seeing that NONE of it requires a god to work, makes god irrelevant.
The rest may be found here, maybe..